Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

S'all good. As the product of a white guy/Asian woman union I'm kinda used to explaining that shit.

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

It's entirely possible for a person to have a race fetish and also treat people with respect as individual people. Paraphilia doesn't really have anything to do with whether a person is capable of being a good lover/partner.

Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

You can be attracted to ::insert race here:: without having a fetish.

Fetishization implies objectification.

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

Fetishization implies objectification.

Not really, no. Maybe in common parlance, or something, but that's not what a fetish is.

If someone's Asian-ness turns you on, you have an Asian fetish. You might objectify the person or you might not.

Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

A fetish was originally an inanimate object imbued with mystical properties. It began to be used in sexual parlance to mean the fetishization of objects or body parts not generally taken to be sexual. When you use it in reference to human beings it most definitely retains that connotation.

Anyway, this argument is largely semantic. Point is some people do prefer ::insert race here:: because they believe some silly racist stereotype about them. 

aliments

Dec 20, 2012

Attraction in general is a good part objectification, though, on the part of both genders. 

My definition of fetish would be if you dated a particular race (or phenotype, or subculture, or whatever) at a rate significantly higher than you would if you were randomly matched with people. 

 

Although you'd probably need some way to take into account the subject's own race, as well.  There's a difference between a white girl dating only white guys vs. an asian/black girl dating only white guys. 

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

began to be used in sexual parlance to mean the fetishization of objects or body parts not generally taken to be sexual. When you use it in reference to human beings it most definitely retains that connotation.

Yes, but that's not the same as objectification of a person. If feet turn you on, you have a foot fetish, but that doesn't mean you don't really love your partner, or whatever.

Everyone has shit that turns them on. A very common "fetish" for men, for example, is tits and vags. That kind of arousal isn't essentially different from fetishes; it just doesn't get called that, because it's the norm.

Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

You must concede there's a huge difference between the Mark Zuckerberg types and some dude who buys a mail order bride from the Philippines. I would say that the latter has a fetish, the former does not.

aliments

Dec 20, 2012

You must concede there's a huge difference between the Mark Zuckerberg types and some dude who buys a mail order bride from the Philippines.

...if Mark Zuckerberg weren't a billionaire/web tycoon, I feel like he wouldn't be too out of place buying a bride from the Philippines...

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

You must concede there's a huge difference between the Mark Zuckerberg types and some dude who buys a mail order bride from the Philippines. I would say that the latter has a fetish, the former does not.

Anyone who is turned on by someone's Asian-ness has an Asian fetish. I don't know if Zuckerberg just happens to find Asian-style looks most attractive (which would not be a fetish) or is actually specifically turned on by people looking/being/seeming Asian (which would be a fetish). Either way, it doesn't matter what people would say "counts" as a fetish. I'm just pointing out that a fetish is just an unusual thing that arouses people, and doesn't have anything to do with whether someone treats their partner like a jizz-rag.

I once dated a girl with a huge Jew fetish. Like, a legit fetish; she was sexually aroused by the idea of a Jewish partner. That's what turned her on, but it didn't make her incapable of relating to me like a normal person, or whatever.

aliments

Dec 20, 2012

Are you sure she didn't simply like long noses?

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

Are you sure she didn't simply like long noses?

Doubtful. There are plenty of elephants she could have been dating instead of me.

Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

Did she say what she liked about Jewish guys?

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

Did she say what she liked about Jewish guys?

Yeah; that they're Jewish. That, by itself, was super-hot for her. That's what made it a fetish, distinct from just having preferences that coincide with being short and having dark curly hair. She liked Jewish-ness in the same way that some people are into big butts, or being smacked around.

Note that technically speaking, it's not even a true fetish according to the APA unless someone requires it for sexual arousal, but I'm using a more casual definition; one synonymous with 'kink', because nobody uses it in the APA way.

Nyamuk

Dec 20, 2012

Like I said, I think our differences on the topic are largely semantic. I've heard "fetish" used jokingly to describe what you're talking about, but I think I'd probably be a little annoyed someone seriously told me they thought I had a fetish. 

What9Thousand

Dec 20, 2012

I think I'd probably be a little annoyed someone seriously told me they thought I had a fetish.

Well, either you do have a fetish or you don't. It's not really a subjective thing, except insofar as what one considers "normal" and therefore exempt from fetish status. It's not some kind of insult.

The reason I'm complaining ITT is that the misconception of what a fetish implies, in particular that it means a person only wants you for your boots/panties/latex/ethnicity/religion, causes people with fetishes to be unfairly stigmatized.

Anyone, whether or not they have kinks, can be an asshole who dates people just to get their rocks off. Having them doesn't make this more or less likely.

aliments

Dec 20, 2012

distinct from just having preferences that coincide with being short and having dark curly hair.

Are you referring to your own appearance, or the general Jewish appearance? 

 

 

 

Nyamuk

Dec 21, 2012

Well here's the thing - if you fetishize being short with dark curly hair, then you're not really fetishizing Jewishness because many non-Jews fit that profile. The problem with the yellow fever, and I'm sure some others, is that it entails a fetishization of a personality that is supposed to go with the race; ie, not just that the guy attracted to petite women with black hair and epicanthic folds, but that those physical characteristics are supposed to indicate that the girl is submissive and has a high-pitched giggle. It would be analogous to your fetishist being attracted to guys with curly dark hair and big noses, but because she thought it mean that she would get a boyfriend who's neurotic and has a love-hate relationship with his mother. Sure, some Jewish guys fit that bill, but if you're going after Jewish guys thinking they all fit this type, that's a problem. When you fetishize an ethnicity, it's not always limited to to physical characteristics.

What9Thousand

Dec 21, 2012

Well here's the thing - if you fetishize being short with dark curly hair, then you're not really fetishizing Jewishness because many non-Jews fit that profile.

Yes, which is why I made sure to specify that it was Jewishness itself and not being short/having dark curly hair that turned her on.

The problem with the yellow fever, and I'm sure some others, is that it entails a fetishization of a personality that is supposed to go with the race;

Not necessarily. Or at least, not if yellow fever is synonymous with having an Asian fetish. Some people just like the idea of having an Asian partner. Or a black partner, Jewish partner, etc. What specifically about it turns the person on varies between individual cases. There certainly are plenty of the sorts of people you're referring to, but it's not the entirety of the Asian fetishist population. That's exactly the sort of misconception I'm referring to, really.

My philosemitic ex didn't have expectations of how I was going to behave based on being Jewish. It's just that the fact that I'm Jewish; that was totally hot.

Camuscando

Dec 21, 2012

I think you are both talking about the same thing, except there's a difference in degree. While someone can have a mild fetish for Asians or Jews, like What9 is talking about, they can still respect and love their partners. When someone's fetish puts forth all the character traits into a little box of what it means for someone to be Asian or Jewish, and really believes in those stereotypes whole-heartedly, then we get someone who has an unhealthy view of other people.

Sometimes I'd wonder if women I've dated just wanted to get a non-white guy off their list of "worldliness", but then I realized that it didn't matter if they treated me as an equal and the relationship lasted for longer than a fleeting moment. Being fetishized is only bad when it results in shitty treatment, IMO.

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