Should Gay Marriage and/or Civil Unions for commited Homosexual Couples be legalized in the entire United States?

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Chaeddd

Nov 17, 2013

One of the concepts in the gay gene theory I mentioned is that many gay people make believe they are straight. Therefore if they are taking part in a survey, they will answer that they are straight. This will screw up the survey.

So if a person is a child of a gay man and a gay woman, he will tell you " My parents have gotta be straight, otherwise I would not have been conceived."

These are theories that are unproven. I won't profess to know what causes homosexuality. This thread is not about being gay. It is about how gay marriage is a scam that was invented by divorce lawyers.

I am not making a statement on whether being gay is good or bad, I am asking why have the gay people been allowed to redefine marriage, when all the other kinds of people have not.

MaxVoltageSF

Nov 17, 2013

.

MaxVoltageSF

Nov 17, 2013

While the posted question is basically  "Should Gays be able to get a Civil Marriage in the US", the underlying question is "Should Civil Marriage be Gender Neutral in the US?"

To me, there is one basic reason why marriage should be Gender Neutral.  Intersex.  The simple biological fact that some folks (like me) are not male or female.  We are somewhere in between. Intersex folks might be sexually and  or romantically attracted to men or women or both.  But neither men nor women are our opposite gender. Which means if I (a male appearing intersex person) am attracted to or have sex with a man, it is not a homosexual interaction, as the genders are not the same.   Some intersex folks are sterile, many are not. 

In the US, there is no legal or moral reason to withhold marriage benefits from childless couples (proud or shamed).

I have yet to hear a legitimate, logical, non-bigoted reason against Gender Equality, Gender Neutral Marriage and Equal Protection under the law in the US.

 

thecaveat

Nov 17, 2013

Of course I can apologize. I'm not some weird obsessed dude posting on a dating site to rail against a moot point.

I'll try and explain my point a bit more succinctly, since youre so hyperfocused on being right about something so wrong that you can't seem to understand that the human state can be influenced by more than simple genetic makeup.  Again: It's your bias that's showing here.  You're clearly smart, so I'm happy to try one last time to explain:

Stop looking for the (in your case non-) existence of a gay gene. You'll need to look into the epigenetics of our species.  How the individual is affected in-vitro by environmental stimulus.  Look up Sergey Gavrilets' work on the matter.  To quote a Time article I found on it:

"To be specific, the new theory suggests that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic marks, or “epi-marks,” related to sensitivity to hormones in the womb. These are compounds that sit on DNA and regulate how active, or inactive certain genes are, and also control when during development these genes are most prolific. Gavrilets and his colleagues believe that gene expression may regulate how a fetus responds to testosterone, the all-important male sex hormone. They further argue that epi-marks may help to buffer a female fetus from high levels of testosterone by suppressing receptors that respond to testosterone, for example, (thus ensuring normal fetal development even in the presence of a lot of testosterone) or to buffer a male fetus from low levels of testosterone by upregulating receptors that bind to the hormone (ensuring normal fetal development even in the absence of high levels of testosterone). Normally, these epi-marks are erased after they are activated, but if those marks are passed down to the next generation, the same epi-marks that protected a man in utero may cause oversensitivity to testosterone among his daughters, and the epi-marks that protected a woman in utero may lead to undersensitivity to testosterone among her sons."

Of course, this blather is academic (ha).  Gay people simply are born that way, and it's the duty of the government to not enshrine prejudicial systems that would act against them--- like excluding them from the rights and privileges accorded to straight folks.

Seriously, you can't see your own bias here?

MaxVoltageSF

Nov 17, 2013

Seriously, I don't think he can

rosegently

Nov 17, 2013

So anyways... Pretend gay marriage were legal. Whats next? Gay married people are allowed to adopt kids?

This is actually what happens across most of Europe. While I think our society is imploding, that is mostly due to the recession, and nothing to do with gay marriage or adoption laws.

Kid walks into bed room, "daddy what are you doing to daddy?"

I expect the explanation would be remarkably similar to the answer a straight couple would give.

Definition of marriage: Between a man and woman.

That's not what the Bible says.

http://feralapologist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/398720_218075794953404_100002529541419_483310_2113942464_n1.jpg

 

Chaeddd

Nov 17, 2013

"I have yet to hear a legitimate, logical, non-bigoted reason against Gender Equality, Gender Neutral Marriage and Equal Protection under the law in the US."

 

My answer to that is some folks (like you) who advocate Gender Neutral Marriage say that they are intersex not male or female and he/she/it is somewhere in between. If these people are in favor of it, it must be as dumb an idea as it seems to be.

Look you have XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. You need a fiance' of the opposite sex to get a marriage license in a state that is run by rational people.

rosegently

Nov 17, 2013

My answer to that is some folks (like you) who advocate Gender Neutral Marriage say that they are intersex not male or female and he/she/it is somewhere in between. If these people are in favor of it, it must be as dumb an idea as it seems to be.

I advocate gender-neutral marriage and I am not intersex.

Also, do you enjoy making ad hominem attacks?

Look you have XY chromosomes or XX chromosomes. You need a fiance' of the opposite sex to get a marriage license in a state that is run by rational people.

Fun fact: Some people have XY chromosomes and are male. Some people have XX and are female. Those two account for about 98% of people. About 1 in 50 people have some kind of sex-chromosome-related anomaly.

Most intersex people have neither XY nor XX, but something else (the most common is XXY, but many other variations exist). Some women have XY chromosomes (CAIS). Some men have XX chromosomes (de la Chapelle syndrome). Some people have both (a specific variation on medical chimerism).

You can't simply reduce a person's gender identity to a chromosome test, because so many people would be failed by such a test.


thecaveat

Nov 17, 2013

FYI: Cheaddd has been stalking this topic now for the past 4 years at least through this and numerous other sock puppets in what I could only assume is a pathological obsession with the topic.

Really: He's only got ad-hominem attacks. It's why I ignore him.

fivesider

Nov 17, 2013

I am pretty sure that people in the United States do not believe the XXY and XXX genes exist, as we do in Europe.

The goal that liberals should be pursuing is the elimination of marriage as we know it.

Marriage is derived from the old fashioned forms of marriage in which it is about a man's ownership of his wife and children. In a truly enlightened  society, we view all people as equals. This concept of a man being the lord and master of the woman, is something that we must make obsolete.

A marriage license should be a contract between person A and Person B.

MaxVoltageSF

Nov 17, 2013

nope. Chaeddd ignorance fail

your ignorance makes your arrogance even more amusing.

I have a marriage partner in California, where Judge Vaughn Walker, in an exquisitely detailed ruling made it clear that marriage roles have changed & there is no rational reason for marriage to be anything other than gender neutral.

 

There do, however seem to be a lot of half-baked, non-rational reasons put forth by ignorant bigots.

 

Chaeddd

Nov 17, 2013

I usually try to avoid making ad hominem arguements, It seems to me Max Voltage is a sock puppet who was created to make fun of gay people.

MaxVoltageSF

Nov 17, 2013

Make fun of gay people? 

Nope.  

Sock puppet?

Nope

 

Don't worry,  no one is expecting you to back up your silly claims.. it just wouldn't be you.

 

Chaeddd

Nov 18, 2013

"some folks (like me) are not male or female.  We are somewhere in between. Intersex folks might be sexually and  or romantically attracted to men or women or both. "

I can't take you seriously if you bring up this nonsense. You are one of those guys who believe that a homosexual is a man who is too stupid to realize that he is not a woman.

Intersex is a website that pioneered BDSM related video.

thecaveat

Nov 21, 2013

Illinois is now friendly to da bears. Also other queer folk.

Yep. That 16 states where it's now legal.

It's interesting to watch this question get less and less germane, and how anti-marriage-equality people look crazier and crazier.

Chaeddd

Nov 21, 2013

They should have named the San Francisco NFL team the Bears.

The Chicago NFL team should be "The Gangsters"

If Toronto had an NFL team they would call it the Mounties

that could be the RCMP or someone who gets mounted by a mounter.

does_matter

Nov 21, 2013

thecaveat

Really: He's only got ad-hominem attacks. It's why I ignore him.

 

and so have you. I have provided reference that your "democratic" and youth folks don't know how much (few) there are homosexuals over there, and you ignored it. If it's "homophobes" who are biased, why then it's "progressives" who exaggerate homosexuality prevalence by order of magnitude?

Oh well, actually, is the US, almost everyone, including most phD.s has been brainwashed about that.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147824/adults-estimate-americans-gay-lesbian.aspx

>You'll need to look into the epigenetics of our species.

Ha. So when genetic hypothesis has been ruled out, epigenetics is the law straw to make it seem homosexuality should neccessarily be present in our species.

Note that the academician says "X influences Y". From where you take a leap of faith and say "See, homosexuality is inborn, I told ya". But, actually, genes and prenatal conditions influence everything -- including from inclinity to listen classical music to have ability to grow muscles. So to prove it's inborn, much more evidence needed. And the epigenetic hypothesis just has been postulated, not verified. Note that you cite publication from popular journal, not scientific one.

So what about that? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642872

Despite numerous attempts to bias the results in favour of the null hypothesis and allowing for up to 20 (of 63, 32%) coding errors, Cameron's (2006) hypothesis that gay and lesbian parents would be more likely to have gay, lesbian, bisexual or unsure (of sexual orientation) sons and daughters was confirmed

 

does_matter

Nov 21, 2013

2 thecaveat:

if you insist if somehow adaptive of our species to have some % who are exclusively homosexual, how is intersex condition beneficial to the species? And why many people of Europeoid race have acne? What is the evolutionary benefit of acne?

does_matter

Nov 21, 2013

>Most intersex people have neither XY nor XX, but something else (the most common is XXY,

Educate yourself. Most people with something other than XX/XY are not intersex. And most intersex have still XX or XY. This is because Y chromosome has SRY gene which is only a trigger. It's either present or absent. Having additional copy of it won't turn male into female again. Having extra copy of X chromosome won't make body more female, as X has nothing to do with sex determination. Intersex condition is due to flaws somewhere else, usually hormone receptors are broken, not hormones or SRY itself.

does_matter

Nov 21, 2013

One of the concepts in the gay gene theory I mentioned is that many gay people make believe they are straight. Therefore if they are taking part in a survey, they will answer that they are straight

I am not sure about my sexual orientation. And transsexual status.

Am I hetersexual, homosexual or both?

Am I cisgener or transgender, or both?

Can I have a scientific test (like they determine blood group very easily) to settle this issue?

Plllllllease! I got so many discomfort because I don't know. I grew up in haumofobbic Russia, was exposed to social-darwinism before puberty, so I might be very deep in self-denial. So where's the test?

See, it's not science.

If science had proven it's inborn, it would have opened way for selective abortions. Hundreds of millions of responsible parents do not wish for their children to enjoy shorter livespan, small potentional partner pool and (in case of males) much more dense pool of STIs. And some want to have grandchildren, too. So many ppl will pay many $$$ for tests. Why so few people work on that? Maybe because the only researchers who think homosexuality is inborn are ones who just milk  taxpayers' money instead for working on market needs?

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