xero_chance09

Apr 14, 2010

Men Ditch 'nice guy' style, get more dates:

Dean Melcher was the kind of guy who befriended girls easier than boys. He was a tad shy, consistently thoughtful and surrounded by women, but he still couldn't get a girlfriend.

"I think I was kind of clueless and oblivious," admits Melcher, who spent his early 20s lingering in the friend zone. "Women wanted the bad boys."

Everyone probably knows a Mr. Nice Guy like Melcher, who is now 46. He's the guy who patiently listens to a girl complain without interrupting her. Because of his sweet nature, he puts the girl's demands first, altering his weekend plans to fit her schedule. He may be uneasy about making a decision for fear of being domineering.

..."Girls might say they want a nice guy, but what they really want is the cool guy," said Arthur Malov, founder of New York Dating Coach, a relationship consulting agency with primarily male clients. "A jerk is rarely so bad that no one wants to hook up with him."

...The dating coach tells men to stop being so available and flexible. He advises the men to leave a little mystery because women, despite what they say, do desire the chase.

"The dichotomy isn't between good guys or bad guys," he explained. "It's between weak guys and strong guys."

This nice guy backlash may sound unpleasant, but some men blame women who disregard the nice guy as an option. Some women interviewed say they equate a nice guy with being a boring guy. Others used words like "marshmallow," "doormat" and even "creeper."

Academic studies have reaffirmed that women prefer the bad boy archetype over the nice guy. A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

And the article continues.

What do you all think of this?  Nice guy retraining doesn't seem to be such a bad idea, right?  This has been repeated over, over, and over ad nauseum:  stop being so available, stop being predictable, stop being reliable, and stop catering to whatever the other person wants.  Why is this so difficult to understand?

Lillith923

Apr 14, 2010

Die a slow painful death at the hands of a 500 lb dom woman.

Please and thank you.

friendpolarbear

Apr 14, 2010

False dichotomy is false.

I'd like a girl who's smart enough to realise that, thanks.

Socrateeth_

Apr 14, 2010

^^  Love the new pic!

meg_in_okc

Apr 14, 2010

I actually really like the "not nice vs. bad," but rather "weak vs. strong."  Good words.

Dark_N_Romantic

Apr 14, 2010

Some women interviewed say they equate a nice guy with being a boring guy. Others used words like "marshmallow," "doormat" and even "creeper."

People "equate" a lot of things, it does not make it so.

What do you all think of thiss?

As I always do...Stupid. If I am a Nice Guy, I look at what the word really means and how I live by it. Its not my fault if people are petty and a sad bunch for living by stereotypes.

Nice guy retraining doesn't seem to be such a bad idea, right?

Neither does training people not to judge a book by its cover.

This has been repeated over, over, and over ad nauseum: 

  • stop being so available (Should be too available for the reason of trying to get someone to like you.)
  • stop being predictable (Some people like predicable, so this is not solid.)
  • stop being reliable (Reliability is one of the keys of having a good relationship.)
  • and stop catering to whatever the other person wants (Agreed.).

Why is this so difficult to understand?

The list given has so many loopholes a aircraft carrier can be pilotted thorough it. The difficulty comes in the fact that no two individuals are exactly alike. One cannot say this is the absolute thing that will work. There are some dominaring women who want a man who is the stereotype you are presenting and some want a man with a strong will that she can break. Some women don't mind the soft whimpy kind because the more bolder, non-Nice Guy types have hurt her so much. And some don't have any kind of issues and this is just the kind of guy she wants. And then there are the one's who are smart enough to not base her likes or dislikes on names and titles, but a man's actions.

ZachDuke

Apr 14, 2010

Some women interviewed say they equate a nice guy with being a boring guy. Others used words like "marshmallow," "doormat" and even "creeper."

People "equate" a lot of things, it does not make it so.

In these cases, it does.

 

Dark_N_Romantic

Apr 14, 2010

^2 of my 4 exes dated me because I was a Nice Guy. Loved how I presented myself and my actions towards them. I've known women in my dealings who said this is why they married their husbands, they were nice men.

And that is why I made the point of saying, "And then there are the one's who are smart enough to not base her likes or dislikes on names and titles, but a man's actions."

i_am_Drew24

Apr 14, 2010

My current girlfriend is with me because I'm not a jerk, so the statistics and the "nice guy" threads and stereotypes can go straight to hell for all I care. I'm a nice guy, proud to be one, and in a long term relationship, so for all you other nice guys out there, maybe just maybe its got nothing to do with being nice and A LOT more to do with having absolutely no idea how to please a woman. Just a thought.

ZachDuke

Apr 14, 2010

^^Irrelavent. My point?

You can't say what is or is not true when asking women to "equate" niceguys they've met. These women have all experienced the niceguy/doormat combination. So, it is so in their cases.

Bondidude

Apr 14, 2010

^^

I think it has less to do with not knowing how to "please" a woman and more like how to "talk to" a woman.  :-P

GrinStais

Apr 14, 2010

Yeah, I'm already stuck in my ways to become shallow and self centered.

travvler

Apr 14, 2010

^^ and ^^^^

Sort of what Bondidude said . . .

I think it comes down to whether a man is awkward or not.  Too many of the men who post here who claim to be nice guys are also just odd, weird, awkward, something's off.  Smart women pick up on that and run. 

The women who go for the bad boys tend to be young (under 25) immature (which knows no age), dumb/naive (e.g. Sandra Bullock), want a man to fix (e.g. Sandra Bullock), or simply aren't interested in a committed or monogamous relationship.  If you're a nice guy with a brain who wants to be married why would you want to be with any of these types of women?

If a nice guy isn't getting what he wants he probably needs to work on his self esteem and how he presents himself, not change into what he dislikes.

ZachDuke

Apr 14, 2010

Why are you pointing at me?

Dark_N_Romantic

Apr 14, 2010

So, everyone who has the title of "Nice Guy" is a doormat? Women who have said they dated "Nice Guys" or who have stated they are looking for a "Nice Guy" is looking for as what these women you describe are looking for?

VWhat I am saying is this...Which you are missing. What an individual see as true does not equal truth.

VI never did. All I said is that not ALL people veiw the term "Nice Guy" in a negative light and that those are wiser people.

ZachDuke

Apr 14, 2010

^ Why don't you try reading before you comment. All I said was, you cannot dictate the truth of how the women polled see the nice guys they've met.

I never even stated an opinion one way or another, thank you very much.

travvler

Apr 14, 2010

^Missed an arrow. Meant Drew24

Roger_Dodger

Apr 14, 2010

Academic studies have reaffirmed that women prefer the bad boy archetype over the nice guy. A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

New Scientist: Bad guys really do get the most girls

travvler

Apr 14, 2010

Seems like all the research is stating the obvious.  Nice guys should just accept their dating pool is smaller.  You can't make women want what they don't want.

Bondidude

Apr 14, 2010

Academic studies have reaffirmed that women prefer the bad boy archetype over the nice guy. A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

College students being the key word in that paragraph.  Because ALL single women fit into a majority age 18-25 demographic...

Point being you ask someone in their 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. if they find those same traits to be attractive and you will get different answers.

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