zzita

Feb 4, 2010

what's your policy on this one?  given that barrier methods are not as effective against herpes as against other things.  if you and your primary are both free of the virus, are ppl with herpes ruled out as secondaries, or is the situation more complex that that?

zzita

Feb 4, 2010

also, how many steps removed does someone have to be before it is ok?  if they are a lover of a lover of your lover, is that ok but closer is not?

diogenesbrightl

Feb 4, 2010

hi ZZita,

        you like the loaded subjects.. herpes simplex has infection/carrier rates as high as 85% in certain populations(nordic/swedish), 25% seems to be the US national average and no, normal protections are NOT as effective.

Barrier methods ARE effective against internal lesions which a female sufferer may not be aware of(taught in the HAI- Sex Love and Intimacy series of workshops).

I friend of mine has Herpes simplex and gets the occasional lesion under stress facially, she immediately goes on a twice daily dose of Valtrex for 3 days and also puts her current lover on the same dose prophalactically immediately on feeling the symptoms. 

A far more significant question you MAY want to be asking yourself is about the possibility of papilloma viruses(wart causing and non wart causing(cancer causing)).

EVERYONE(well 97%) gets exposure to these and there is a vaccine for some of the cancer causing varieties they recommend.

But no effective practical protections for the papillomas exist except simply not to touch skin to skin and that is NOT practical. Communication is the main defense against these issues, ie the safe sex/sexual history talk/inspection(with a flashlight and speculum if necessary) prior to having fun.

     diogenes

ps hope this provided some data and yet another way of dealing with the issue. And prolly a good thing I am NOT looking for anything more than conversations on OKCupid, the above would scare a lot of folks off.

peasisback

Feb 4, 2010

if you and your primary are both free of the virus, are ppl with herpes ruled out as secondaries, or is the situation more complex that that?

It depends. Is it just cold sores, or is it genital herpes? If the former, I wouldn't worry much about it at all - I've never had a cold sore and would rather not start now; but I'm still not willing to make out with people (assuming they're not having an obvious outbreak; if they were, I obviously wouldn't kiss them at all) through dental dams, which no one really does, anyway.

There's an enormous social stigma against genital herpes that doesn't exist for cold sores; so lots of people think they're being 'extra safe' by using barriers during oral sex but (for whatever reason) not during kissing, somehow ignoring the fact that they can easily get another strain of herpes that way.

That said, as far as genital herpes, the one way I'd be likeliest to contract it would be via oral sex. I'm usually the 'giver', though; and getting herpes by going down on someone is highly unlikely. Probably even less likely than contracting oral herpes via kissing.

REDST8

Feb 4, 2010

People w' herpes need to DIAF.

diogenesbrightl

Feb 4, 2010

uh Pea,,  its the same virus.. cold sores are herpes simplex..   ie hsv-1 and hsv-2 can both occur orally or genitally or anyplace else on the body     diogenes

ps at least according to my MD and also wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex

and usual troll warnings apply.. ie I just added another idiot to my troll trap.

Lord_Amon

Feb 4, 2010

I've never seen die in a fire abbreviated before. Is it really even necessary? O.o

ZeroFailure

Feb 4, 2010

diogenesbrightl: They are two different versions of the same virus. Cold sores tend to work like chicken pox. Most people get them once and then don't have an outbreak ever again.

There are some treatments that surpress outbreaks, and minimizes the possibility of transmission.

toddanarchy

Feb 4, 2010

I've never had herpes, but it seems so overrated as a "scare."  The consequences are minimal.

 

diogenesbrightl

Feb 4, 2010

there are 5-6 different versions of the Herpes virus, although HSV-1 and HSV2 are suspected of the same genetic  origin, ie seroconversion of HSV1 confers some immunity to HSV-2 indicating the same anitibodies are being activated by the human immune system. The Wikipedia article and the HAI lectures on the subject are far more informationally complete. Lesion outbreaks can occur again and again as the virus lives in the nerve pathways.

The best shot for now is valtrex if you have had exposure to the virus or barriers prior to exposure.

      cheers

      diogenes

BTW chickenpox and shingles are ALSO other types of herpes viruses

and yes Todd it is WAY overrated as a scare..

peasisback

Feb 4, 2010

 its the same virus.. cold sores are herpes simplex..   ie hsv-1 and hsv-2 can both occur orally or genitally or anyplace else on the blah blah blah

...

In my post, I clearly stated that it's possible to contract genital herpes via oral sex with someone who has cold sores (or to contract oral herpes by performing unprotected oral), so what's your point?

diogenesbrightl

Feb 4, 2010

Hi Pea,

    "Is it just cold sores, or is it genital herpes?"  

 

Its always HSV-1/2, only question is the locus and how they are referred to. Cold Sores are always herpes never just cold sores. Thats the point I was trying to make.  Sorry if I somehow offended.(at least this is a fun controversial subject :)

 

    diogenes

peasisback

Feb 4, 2010

Its always HSV-1/2, only question is the locus and how they are referred to. Cold Sores are always herpes never just cold sores. Thats the point I was trying to make. 

None of this contradicts anything in my original post, though. I think you're just talking to yourself at this point, so I'll leave you to that.

P3ppers

Feb 4, 2010

As things currently stand in my circle of fluid bonded individuals, those with herpes of any form are excluded from any form of fluid exchange. That doesn't mean there can't be a relationship, but on the side of sex and intimacy it certainly puts some extremely heavy and I'm sure highly discouraging restrictions on said hypothetical relationship.

 

It should be noted that it's never actually come up as anything but a hypothetical thus far.

diogenesbrightl

Feb 4, 2010

gee p3eppers are you excluding everyone who had herpes viruses even herpes zoster viruses(chickenpox)?... 

 

          1 in every 4 american adults carries the virus HSV-1/2(most dont know they carry same) how are you serologically screening for the presence of the virus?(only effective method)

 

       diogenes

btw see my companion topic to this one.. OSO(s) with Papilloma viruses!!

stitchwitch_d

Feb 4, 2010

those with herpes of any form are excluded from any form of fluid exchange.

Herpes is transmitted via skin-to-skin contact, not fluids.

P3ppers

Feb 4, 2010

^Heh, good point.

cheninblanc

Feb 4, 2010

"As things currently stand in my circle of fluid bonded individuals, those with herpes of any form are excluded from any form of fluid exchange."

Given that over 90% of us carry HSV-1, that severely limits your pool.

Diogenesbright - you seem to be as well-informed as anyone, but wouldn't you also admit that the evidence is very fuzzy regarding the transmission of this virus, as well its manifestation? I always find that information is super-conservative in the absence of real knowledge. If we believed everything we read, we would never even kiss anyone without a barrier.

I also agree with the others who state that herpes is way overrated. Herpes is not at all life-threatening, but merely an inconvenience. 

zzita

Feb 4, 2010

ok, to clarify:

HSV-1 and HSV-2 are different viruses.  both can live on your face or your genitals (or less often, other places such as hands).  they have preferences, though. HSV-1 tends to live longer and prosper more on your mouth, and HSV-2 on genitals.

colloquially, 'herpes' means genital infection, usually from HSV-2, and 'cold sore' means oral infection, usually HSV-1.

**

personally, i am as concerned about viruses in this family as i am HIV.  among folks i know, HSV-2 is much more common than HIV, and testing and knowledge are less common.

yes, HSV-2 is not significantly life-threatening for non-immunocompromised folks.  but it sure does cramp your sex life, for the rest of your life.  i know ppl with HSV-2, and i know how hard it is for them to find partners.  i don't want that.

of course, in the generation older than me, HSV-2 is VERY common among sex-positive folks, and so carries less stigma.

grettr

Feb 4, 2010

A useful thing to keep in mind in this discussion is that HSV-1 has a preference for you mouth and HSV-2 has a preference for your genitals but either can express in either place, in fact either can express any where if you get infected somewhere else. For example, Herpatic Witlow is a herpes infection in some other body part, usually the hand.

Now personally, I have HSV-1. I don't seem to get outbreaks even though I worry about any oddness in my mouth being an outbreak. At one point, I had a partner who thought she had a genital infection of herpes but had been asymptomatic for over 10 years I thought the relationship had potential so I took the risk. Amusingly, later testing testing revealed that she was HSV free.

As to whether to risk HSV of either type that is an interesting choice because in other than novel cases it is a nuisance infection with far far less repercussions than any other STDs. In fact, and feel free to fact check and correct me on this, I think that it has the least health risks of any of the common STDs for people with non-compromised immune systems. So, it's not a health issue if you get it. It's a dating issue. Currently, there is a meme in poly that infected = dirty. People seem to use the same language they used to use when discussing women who owned there sexuality to describe people with STDs. Like it's okay to be a prude if it's from a purely immunological sense. Let me be clear, it's not that I'm eager to get syphillis I'm just cranky about the fact people seem to use being concerned about STD to get to judge others about their sexual practices while still claiming to be sex positive.

So my advice is completely cynical, do avoid HSV just so that you don't have to have the discussion with folks and worry about being for lack of a better word 'unclean'. 

 

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