Nessa_Bean

Mar 21, 2013

My wife and I decided that we want to give poly a try.  Why?  Why not just have a threesome?  Because we want a real relationship.  For us, the sex just isn't the same without a relationship.  That's why I use the word "try".

Anyway, the point of this post is to request advice as how to best approach bi women (because that's what we want...a FFM type arrangement)?  Our profile has the word "polyamory" once and we are advertised as a couple.  When we email someone we're potentially interested in, we usually ask if they would be interested in potentially dating a couple.  I realize they're called unicorns for a reason but I'm just trying to figure out how we can elicit more responses.  Usually, we get nothing...maybe a look at our profile.  And, we're not going to lie or deceive either.  We're not going to advertise as a single bi-woman and then say "oh by the way, let me introduce you to my husband".  We have way more integrity than that.  Yes, my wife's picture is the main profile picture because it's very recent and we think it's the best one we have...plus we figured that it was appropriate since we're trying to go for more of a FFM relationship.  We're not ugly and we're not built like brick shithouses either but we're decent looking, educated, and have the capacity to love beyond our marriage.  I also know this kind of thing takes time.  We are also in the deep south (north Alabama) where this may not be as accepted as say, California.  Still, we are close to major cities like Nashville, Birmingham, and Atlanta.  If anyone in the poly community has any advice, we're all ears.

Thanks!

DrGeniusWiener

Mar 21, 2013

You should try some swinger sites too.

Nessa_Bean

Mar 21, 2013

 Interesting you suggest that as many who  are poly report success using okc. 

DrGeniusWiener

Mar 21, 2013

I'm not suggesting you won't have successes using okc.

I'm am however suggesting trying a reputable swinger's site as well.

I say this because from my personal experience "swingers" seem less conflicted about open relationships and the divestment of intimacy than people who identify themselves as "poly."

Your milage may vary.

 

Tiger-Bomb

Mar 22, 2013

First I think I might preface with the statement that my poly isn't your poly, which is to say that what I and my partners are looking for is quite different that what you and your partner are looking for.  Even though I've been in open relationships for quite a while, I get the impression that they are quite different than what you are attempting. 

I've always thought it was setting a rather high bar to expect to find a "third" partner for your relationship, who will be attracted to and partners with both of you.  I don't at all think it's impossible, and in fact I know of a few situations like this, but I think most of those have more started out as "vees" and later become a bit more like a "triad". 

I think that you may be making some strong assumptions about what terms mean, what will be most stable for your relationship, and what potential partners want. 

In the way of terms, "poly" and "relationship" each mean about a thousand things.  What do you mean by them?  When you say FFM what does *that* mean?  What do you mean when you say "dating a couple"?  Do they date each of you together?  Separately?  Both?  Do they date other people? 

As to what will be most stable for your relationship, are you hoping this prospective partner will love you both equally, and you them, all in perfect balance?  My experience has been that people tend to feel more or less strongly for their partners at different times.  Is a triad really what you are looking for, or have you defaulted to a FFM triad because you have ruled out some other things?

How do you see this structure meeting the needs of a potential partner?  Have you tried to see it from an outside perspective? 

I also think that culturally you are coming from a far different place than I am, and part of that may be that we are in rather distant areas geographically.  I notice that there are quite a few swingers clubs in Georgia, but I'm not seeing as much on poly type gatherings.  I'd recommend you set some good boundaries and go to some of these clubs.  Not necessarily to have physical encounters, maybe even rule that out entirely ahead of time.  I think the important thing is that you will get the opportunity to meet some folks in real life in your area and get the benefit of their perspective.  Swinging most often involves both partners, so there are likely couples near you making agreements and navigating relationships similar to what you are currently looking for, be it with other couples, or other singles, more like your pursuit.

 

Best of luck!

Nessa_Bean

Mar 23, 2013

 

 

First I think I might preface with the statement that my poly isn't your poly, which is to say that what I and my partners are looking for is quite different that what you and your partner are looking for.  Even though I've been in open relationships for quite a while, I get the impression that they are quite different than what you are attempting. 

I understand that poly can take many different forms.  For example, maybe my wife is free to date another bi-woman and maybe I’m free to date another woman.  It will take a little more maturity on our parts to be comfortable with this idea but we need to grow in this regard. 

I've always thought it was setting a rather high bar to expect to find a "third" partner for your relationship, who will be attracted to and partners with both of you.  I don't at all think it's impossible, and in fact I know of a few situations like this, but I think most of those have more started out as "vees" and later become a bit more like a "triad". 

Forming a triad is ultimately what we are after but that may be setting the bar too high as you put it. Maybe the “vee” idea is a better approach.  If that’s the case, are you suggesting that we advertise ourselves independently and state that we are “attached” but poly? 

I think that you may be making some strong assumptions about what terms mean, what will be most stable for your relationship, and what potential partners want. 

I’m sure I am.  My question is:  What would most potential partners want?  For someone else to be open to poly, does that mean that dating in a “vee” is usually the first step…getting them used to the idea possibly followed by a triad? 

In the way of terms, "poly" and "relationship" each mean about a thousand things.  What do you mean by them?  When you say FFM what does *that* mean?  What do you mean when you say "dating a couple"?  Do they date each of you together?  Separately?  Both?  Do they date other people? 

What does FFM mean, in our case?  Well, I guess I envisioned a triad relationship the focus is more on my wife and another bi-woman.  My assumption was that if that comfort level developed, I could follow.  Maybe I’m looking at this all wrong though.  Dating a couple…well, the original intent was for a bi-woman to date us at the same time but I’m beginning to think, based on your comments, that it may not be feasible as say a “vee” as you suggest.  I think I’m beginning to understand your point after thinking about it for a few days. 

As to what will be most stable for your relationship, are you hoping this prospective partner will love you both equally, and you them, all in perfect balance?  My experience has been that people tend to feel more or less strongly for their partners at different times.  Is a triad really what you are looking for, or have you defaulted to a FFM triad because you have ruled out some other things? 

Love equally…well, that’s probably a difficult thing to do.  Obviously, my wife and I are primary partners.  Even in a triad, I see the focus changing all the time.  I think you’re saying the same thing.  I guess I’m mixing terms here…triad…FFM.  Here’s the deal, my wife is bi and I am not.  So, the only choice is a bi-woman in a triad…or a vee. 

How do you see this structure meeting the needs of a potential partner?  Have you tried to see it from an outside perspective? 

Outside perspective…I struggle with that one and maybe you or someone else could connect the dots for me.  Sure, poly is different and unconventional.  It’s difficult for me to see but here’s what I was thinking:  If I’m a bi-woman, what could be better than a MF couple?  Narrow-minded…yes I know it is but I don’t know how most bi-women really see it.  Again, I would like some perspective on this. 

I also think that culturally you are coming from a far different place than I am, and part of that may be that we are in rather distant areas geographically.  I notice that there are quite a few swingers clubs in Georgia, but I'm not seeing as much on poly type gatherings.  I'd recommend you set some good boundaries and go to some of these clubs.  Not necessarily to have physical encounters, maybe even rule that out entirely ahead of time.  I think the important thing is that you will get the opportunity to meet some folks in real life in your area and get the benefit of their perspective.  Swinging most often involves both partners, so there are likely couples near you making agreements and navigating relationships similar to what you are currently looking for, be it with other couples, or other singles, more like your pursuit. 

You mention swinging.  Isn’t swinging for couples who swap partners?   Maybe my view on that is narrow as well but I’m not sure that’s for us.  While my wife is married to me, a man, but she has no desire to be with other men.  I guess it’s because I don’t get all Neanderthal in bed and take my time and I’m really into her and pay attention to her.  However, she wants the company of another woman. I’ve seen time and time again that some bi-women love the touch and sensuality of another woman. So, maybe that’s not for us.  If you have some other perspective on it, I’m all ears. 

I’ve read many different sources regarding polyamory and I think I need to read more.  Of course, other’s perspective here is certainly welcome.  I’m open to comment/suggestions/criticisms. 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Tiger-Bomb

Mar 23, 2013

A lot of good thoughts! 

If I’m a bi-woman, what could be better than a MF couple?  Narrow-minded…yes I know it is but I don’t know how most bi-women really see it.  Again, I would like some perspective on this.

I bet some bi women really do like this idea, but I think that the majority are going to look sideways at this.  It sounds like there's an implication that you are expecting a partner to have you two as their only partners, but that you two will be primaries, and this partner will be a secondary partner to both of you.  I don't know if that's what you mean, but it does seem heavily implied.

You mention swinging.  Isn’t swinging for couples who swap partners?   Maybe my view on that is narrow as well but I’m not sure that’s for us.  While my wife is married to me, a man, but she has no desire to be with other men.  I guess it’s because I don’t get all Neanderthal in bed and take my time and I’m really into her and pay attention to her.  However, she wants the company of another woman. I’ve seen time and time again that some bi-women love the touch and sensuality of another woman. So, maybe that’s not for us.  If you have some other perspective on it, I’m all ears.

Nope.  I very specifically did not mention swinging.  I mentioned that there are places in your area where you could likely meet bi women who have been with a couple AND meet couples who are doing similar things as what you are attempting.  Swinging does have a lot of facets, but partner swapping is certainly a big part of it.  The rest of your paragraph really seems worthy of self reflection. 

 

Cillianonymous

Mar 24, 2013

I've been following this and a random aside I've been dying to ask, is how you use the quote function ... sorry you two, good dialogue I just have nothing to add other than that question.

Tiger-Bomb

Mar 24, 2013

It's a little odd.  You select a block of text you have typed or pasted and then click the double quote icon in the little menu bar above the text entry box.  It's the 5th one over from the left.

Nessa_Bean

Mar 24, 2013

I bet some bi women really do like this idea, but I think that the majority are going to look sideways at this.  It sounds like there's an implication that you are expecting a partner to have you two as their only partners, but that you two will be primaries, and this partner will be a secondary partner to both of you.  I don't know if that's what you mean, but it does seem heavily implied.

Well, I think you're mostly correct.  However, it's unrealistic in polyamory to expect a secondary partner to only want to be with us exclusively.  In polyfidelity, yes.  What we ultimately want is polyfidelity but I don't think it's realistic with a very narrow focus.  We're still learning how to be open-minded in the many facets of poly as well as becoming more educated.  Thanks for your input and if you have other info to add, I would certainly appreciate it!

Cillianonymous

Mar 24, 2013

I've actually heard that poly triangles of M/F/F is probably the most stable of all closed poly families.  The triangle is infact the strongest shape.

Neequxsan

Mar 26, 2013

You might want to look up a term 'unicorn hunting'.  Typically, or often, when couples first start talking about poly they default to the 'monogamy  + 1' structure which, while yes it can work,.. well.. to put it bluntly, the number of couples looking for a hot bi babe to add and fill a relationship role they have created for her FAR outstrip the number of women who are interested in being secondary partner to an existing couple.  Most of the triads I have known over the years just sorta formed naturally as opposed to the couple actually looking and generally were still ok with the 3rd person having outside relationships when they want.

I know it feels like a nice safe form and thus is closer to your comfort zone, but it is a pattern that really burns people out and generates a lot of negative experiences both for the couple and the unicorn.  

It is generally better to date separately and hey, if someone one of you dates ends up liking both over time then cool.. however it is important that you NOT date people with some idea that that is the goal.  The less planning you do the better.  Just like mono relationships, the important part is to find people you click with and then build from there, not have an end goal in mind and then find someone to mold into it, esp in such an asymmetric power situation where you have the 'real' couple (the two of you) and then the 'third'.

 

 

 

 

 

hellsop

Mar 26, 2013

I've actually heard that poly triangles of M/F/F is probably the most stable of all closed poly families.  The triangle is infact the strongest shape.

It's pretty stable when it works, but when it doesn't, things get very ... complicated very quickly. In a V or other non-complex relationship (W, star, whatever, just one path between any two people), there's no pressure to take sides. You support whatever relationship you're a part of, but beyond that, you're done and can stake a "not my relationship" claim and make it stick.

Triads, on the other hand, are just MADE for taking sides, because every point is in the middle between the other two. When things are not all happiness and light, any of three relationships that's undergoing friction means that the third expressing support for the other partner can be quickly seen as taking the other's side, often becomes the channel for communication, and/or becomes the actual point of contention between those disagreeing.

Cillianonymous

Mar 27, 2013

That's a good point

Nessa_Bean

Mar 28, 2013

Great discussion all. Just wanted to point out that I've sifted through several forums, this one included where poly people have found other poly people on OKC. In fact, it appears that OKC is one of the most popular places for poly. After reading through these comments, it sounds like a likely poly scenario can be cultivated from a vee situation. Is this our best chance of poly success as opposed to outright saying "hey we're poly, are you interested?" 

art_phoenix

Jun 13, 2013

Vee relationships are much easier to form. I heartily second the things that Jythexinvok says.

gunsandfun

Sep 13, 2013

I am one leg of a MFM "V" looking to create a FMF "V" of my own. My problems seems to be this... why would a lady tell you being poly is ok, and they are good with that, then try and make you mono?  I run into this almost every time.  It states right in my profile I am poly and living with my lady.  Sigh....  

 

That said, a "V" is very manageable and it works as long as there is open communication on everyone's part, and no one is trying to hide anything or change the way things are agreed upon.

ColorsWolf

Sep 14, 2013

Polyamory is not in any sense of the word "unconventional", "Monogamy" is.~

Believe it or not: Monogamy is actually more or less a "Human" thing, and in the natural wild it is less common than you think.~

Although trying to "define" "Polyamory" especially with a "name" is definitely a "Human" thing.~

 

Swinging: It is from my understanding that 1 of the greatest rules among many Swingers is to NEVER EVER FALL IN LOVE!~ I guess you could say that "Swingers" are at times the "Antithesis" of "Polyamorus" people almost as much as if not to equal to or more as "Monogamy".~

 

I personally have NO idea what you are talking about when it comes to "primaries", I have never understood that way of thinking or any thing like that.~ How can you put a measurement let alone a "hierarchy" on love?~ So I won't even get into that.~

 

I am currently a member and frequent poster on a website that is DESIGNED for ALL people with your kinds of questions: Polyamory.com/forum .~

I had many questions and I still do although they helped me a great deal, I HIGHLY recommend going there if you have A LOT of questions because they have A TON of information there and very friendly people willing to answer many questions, just be sure if you can't find a topic you're interested in to use the "search" feature, it will help a lot!~ ^_^

 

Happy tidings, 

 

ColorsWolf

FunTimesInSD

Nov 8, 2013

It is generally better to date separately and hey, if someone one of you dates ends up liking both over time then cool.. however it is important that you NOT date people with some idea that that is the goal.  The less planning you do the better.  Just like mono relationships, the important part is to find people you click with and then build from there, not have an end goal in mind and then find someone to mold into it, esp in such an asymmetric power situation where you have the 'real' couple (the two of you) and then the 'third'.

It's unlikely that you'll find someone to be your third. Just take a few seconds and put yourself in the "third" position and see how you would like it  (look up "couple privilege"). But I understand that it feels "safe" and seems like a natural starting point for a couple considering polyamory. But it's not. You might try swinging to start with.

And since you're looking for woman I'm guessing the One Penis Policy is also in place?

Jythexinvok's advice above is good but it may take some time for you both to feel comfortable with going out separately.

Polyamory.com is probably a better place to be getting advice on this topic.  

Good luck!

Kaycee_8

Jan 7

Poly is as challenging as any relationship shift, no matter how you configure it.  I've found it useful to be sure about the "why" first and let the "how" and "who" take care of themselves at first.

Your starting point seems to be that you both want to explore additional sexual experiences and that for you a relationship is necessary part of sexual expression.  Ok.  

What are the needs that you are seeking to fulfil through this?  Is it important that you can share another person together or would separate relationships (even with the same person) work just as well?  Is it enough to have a certain level of friendship or connection or do you seek romantic love?  Are there particular experiences you both seek or are some of your needs different?

Once you understand your needs, then the "how will this look" questions start to flow easily.  Do you see yourself living 24/7 with this third or will it be at more distance?  Will your relationship remain primary?  If equal how far does that extend - will they be allowed equal status in terms of emotional connection, decision making, time, financial entanglement?  Who has veto rights, if any? What happens if one of you decides it's over but the other is still happy?

I recommend the book "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino as an excellent guide to thinking through all the various considerations.  It poses some great questions for couples contemplating any version of an opened up relationship and walks you through the various challenges.

Some of the other replies have stressed the idea of just meeting like-minded people in your area first - great advice.  We have learned a lot from talking with others.  Likewise getting into conversations, as you have with this post.

Best wishes for your unicorn search if that is what will suit you best.  I suspect the trick is that they find you, rather than the other way around.

Talking on OKC about the things you seek, rather than the person you seek, might get better results. I'm more likely to respond to "I love tickle fights ending in sex." rather than "I'm looking for someone with..."

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