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An image of velander
An image of velander
An image of velander
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velander

28 / M / straight / Single

Chicago, Illinois

His journal posts

Non-Monogamy: A Slippery Slope

Okay, so let's address what seems to be a point of contention on my profile. One line in particular seems to lead the ladies to jump to all sorts of (extreme) conclusions, but rather than ditch it for the sake of convenience, I think a little discourse might be in order.

The line in question:
I'm a big fan of commitment, but I believe monogamy is overrated.

No, I'm not a free-lovin' hippie or a hardcore polygamist. In fact, I enjoy being in a committed relationship with one person. I'm an incredibly loyal partner when it comes to the girl that I fall head over heels in love with, and I do everything in my power to prove myself worthy of their love, trust and respect. I love sharing my life with a partner who understands me and loves me for who I am, warts and all. Moreover, it's a goddamn relief when you finally stumble upon that special someone after spending so much time being pummeled and pushed aside in the dating game. Even after all the glorious highs and frustrating lows, you truly come out the winner when you can take that person's hand and walk away from the dog-eat-dog singles scene.

Alas, in all my experiences I've never once had that feeling of "I only have eyes for you." I've been crazy in love -- crazy to the point of delirium, crazy to the point of "Yes, I will drive 14 hours to see you for one night," "Yes, I will buy a last-minute plane ticket to see you this weekend," and "Yes, I will move to Washington, DC to be with you" -- but I am simply incapable of equating my girl as my world.

Because when it comes to sex, I always want more.

Now, that doesn't mean that I'm dissatisfied with what I have with my partner. Before I even consider a serious relationship with someone, I make sure that we're a match in that department. Nor does it mean that I'm not truly in love with the person I'm with. That couldn't be further from the truth! If I wasn't happy with the person I was seriously committed to, I wouldn't be with them in the first place. That would be a waste of her time and mine. Just because I "suffer" from what one girlfriend called Acute Roving-Eye Syndrome (ARES) doesn't mean I'm seeking a way out. Simply, my brain is not hardwired to solely think of one girl and one girl only.

The truth is that I am a junkie for chemistry and attraction. I am fascinated by women. When I am drawn to a particular woman, I will make every (sensible) effort to learn more about her. I love to flirt. It's my passion, my vice. And while I am more than happy to go home with/to the one I love, I fantasize about these other women all the time. Yes, I want to seduce them. I want them naked in my bed. I want to bring them pleasure. And I've always felt this way. I can't turn it off -- I've tried and failed miserably -- nor would I even want to. So what do I do about it?

Answer: I don't know. Honestly, I'm still trying to figure it out. It took me eight years and three relationships before I finally understood that commitment and monogamy are not one and the same. Although most of us prefer to believe it is, it's not -- at least it's not in my case -- so now I guess the next step is to find the proper balance of non-monogamy. (Oh boy, a minefield! Let's skip!) I don't care for one night stands or random hook-ups; I prefer to know and connect with the people who share my bed. That said, I also don't want to get into a serious relationship with every woman I get physical with either. On the other hand, I would prefer to be the only male partner of my "primary." (Christ, did I just use that word in a serious context?) But if I apply that kind of double standard, I'm all too aware that I'm making it even more impossible of finding someone. Seriously, just thinking about this gives me a headache.

Of course, this leads me to the easiest solution: Threesomes! I spent a lot of years pursuing an MFF threesome in my previous relationships. I love the idea of two girls together. I love the idea of having my way with both of them. The idea of them focusing solely on me doesn't come to mind right away, but I love that, too. Well, I finally got my threesome in my last relationship -- two of them, in fact -- and I enjoyed it immensely. After all those years of doggedly trying to reach the holy grail, I had proof that my efforts were not in vain. And given the chance, I would absolutely do it again. The experience of having sex with someone I'm committed to yet having their permission to cheat is fucking amazing, especially when both things are happening at the same time. And afterwards I found myself even more deliriously in love with my girlfriend for giving me such a wonderful experience. Seriously, it didn't get any better than that!

And I guess that's what I hope to find here: an attractive (meaning HWP, too!), sensual, intelligent, well-rounded, open-minded, happy-go-lucky bisexual girl who will have occasional MFF threesomes with me. It would also be best that she enjoy traveling abroad, not want any kids, smell like fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies and ride a unicorn to work every day.

Anybody know a girl like that? Anybody?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Editor's Note: It is truly in your best interests to read the comments section here. Enjoy.]
Okay, so let's address what seems to be a point of contention on myprofile. One line in particular seems to lead the ladies to jump toall sorts of (extreme) conclusions, but rather than ditch it forthe sake of convenience, I think a little discourse might be inorder.

The line in question:
I'm a big fan of commitment, but I believe monogamy isoverrated.

No, I'm not a free-lovin' hippie or a hardcore polygamist. In fact,I enjoy being in a committed relationship with oneperson. I'm an incredibly loyal partner when it comes to the girlthat I fall head over heels in love with, and I do everything in mypower to prove myself worthy of their love, trust and respect. Ilove sharing my life with a partner who understands me and loves mefor who I am, warts and all. Moreover, it's a goddamn relief whenyou finally stumble upon that special someone after spending somuch time being pummeled and pushed aside in the dating game. Evenafter all the glorious highs and frustrating lows, you truly comeout the winner when you can take that person's hand and walk awayfrom the dog-eat-dog singles scene.

Alas, in all my experiences I've never once had that feeling of "Ionly have eyes for you." I've been crazy in love -- crazy to thepoint of delirium, crazy to the point of "Yes, I will drive 14hours to see you for one night," "Yes, I will buy a last-minuteplane ticket to see you this weekend," and "Yes, I will move toWashington, DC to be with you" -- but I am simply incapable ofequating my girl as my world.

Because when it comes to sex, I always want more.

Now, that doesn't mean that I'm dissatisfied with what I have withmy partner. Before I even consider a serious relationship withsomeone, I make sure that we're a match in that department. Nordoes it mean that I'm not truly in love with the person I'm with.That couldn't be further from the truth! If I wasn't happy with theperson I was seriously committed to, I wouldn't be with themin the first place. That would be a waste of her time and mine.Just because I "suffer" from what one girlfriend called AcuteRoving-Eye Syndrome (ARES) doesn't mean I'm seeking a way out.Simply, my brain is not hardwired to solely think of one girl andone girl only.

The truth is that I am a junkie for chemistry and attraction. I amfascinated by women. When I am drawn to a particular woman, I willmake every (sensible) effort to learn more about her. I love toflirt. It's my passion, my vice. And while I am more than happyto go home with/to the one I love, I fantasize about these otherwomen all the time. Yes, I want to seduce them. I want them nakedin my bed. I want to bring them pleasure. And I've always feltthis way. I can't turn it off -- I've tried and failedmiserably -- nor would I even want to. So what do I do aboutit?

Answer: I don't know. Honestly, I'm still trying to figureit out. It took me eight years and three relationships before Ifinally understood that commitment and monogamy are not one and thesame. Although most of us prefer to believe it is, it's not -- atleast it's not in my case -- so now I guess the next step is tofind the proper balance of non-monogamy. (Oh boy, aminefield! Let's skip!) I don't care for one night stands or randomhook-ups; I prefer to know and connect with the people who share mybed. That said, I also don't want to get into a seriousrelationship with every woman I get physical with either. On theother hand, I would prefer to be the only malepartner of my "primary." (Christ, did I just use that word in aserious context?) But if I apply that kind of double standard, I'mall too aware that I'm making it even more impossible of findingsomeone. Seriously, just thinking about this gives me aheadache.

Of course, this leads me to the easiest solution: Threesomes! Ispent a lot of years pursuing an MFF threesome in my previousrelationships. I love the idea of two girls together. I love theidea of having my way with both of them. The idea of them focusingsolely on me doesn't come to mind right away, but I love that, too.Well, I finally got my threesome in my last relationship -- two ofthem, in fact -- and I enjoyed it immensely. After all those yearsof doggedly trying to reach the holy grail, I had proof that myefforts were not in vain. And given the chance, I would absolutelydo it again. The experience of having sex with someone I'mcommitted to yet having their permission to cheat is fuckingamazing, especially when both things are happening at the sametime. And afterwards I found myself even more deliriously inlove with my girlfriend for giving me such a wonderful experience.Seriously, it didn't get any better than that!

And I guess that's what I hope to find here: an attractive (meaningHWP, too!), sensual, intelligent, well-rounded, open-minded,happy-go-lucky bisexual girl who will have occasional MFFthreesomes with me. It would also be best that she enjoy travelingabroad, not want any kids, smell like fresh-baked chocolate chipcookies and ride a unicorn to work every day.

Anybody know a girl like that? Anybody?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Editor's Note: It is truly in your best interests to readthe comments section here. Enjoy.]
Non-Monogamy: A Slippery Slope
An image of iluvfrenchies Way to be honest. That is a positive but I'm not sure it would be enough for most girls to read past the fact you wouldn't be happy with just her. Good Luck!

iluvfrenchies commented on

Default user image This is so refreshing to see, as opposed to, say, the bi-f profiles that say "Hi wur a cupple we want sum1 to 3sum wif."

A former user commented on

Default user image LOLLOLLLOLOLLSLOLLYLOLLEDLOLLOPALLSLOWLYLOTLOLLIESLOLLINGLOLLOPSALSOONLYO it's almost funny to see something like this coming from my own personal guru on this site but I must say I didn't peg you for such a horn dog. Threesomes are hard to come by, Good luck dude.

A former user commented on

An image of velander

I don't know what's worse sometimes: being honest with others or being honest with myself. As iluvfrenchies pointed out, most girls will reject me right away because "they won't be enough." I hate that phrase in particular because of its simplicity. It's brutally honest to the point where it kills all chance of further dialogue. Seriously, how does one counter such a foolproof argument? (Even worse, it's an argument that always makes me feel like a cad.)

However, there's no point in lying to myself for the sake of convenience either. If I sugarcoated the topic, it would only delay the inevitable, thus making things messier in the long run. Some girls will assume the worst of me the moment they read this post, others will take the more rational approach of learning more about me before passing judgment. We'll see soon enough.

velander commented on

Default user image Hey, just read your "monogamy" post, and I think it's a pretty good one. I think that you're admitting what a lot of people feel but would never admit for fear of being judged. I personally believe that we are not biologically inclined to monogamy and that it's really difficult to deny all of those urges. Sometimes I wonder how we, as a species, manage to do it at all. Anyway, high five for the honesty. Do what makes you happy.

A former user commented on

An image of velander

Thanks for the supportive words. It's nice to see strangers online actually cheer me on in this endeavor even if they don't necessarily endorse it.

You know, it took me years to reach this conclusion, but when my ex offered up the simple explanation that, "You're just not a monogamous person. You're capable of it, but it's a struggle for you," it felt like a lightning bolt went off in my head. She was right. I'm not a monogamous person. I don't know how non-monogamous I am -- I'm probably pretty tame compared to a lot of polys found on this site -- but I do know that the sooner I accept this, the less heartbreak there will be in the future.

Yes, biologically we are not inclined to monogamy, but I do think we need to stop using that as an open-ended excuse to justify our desire for lots of filthy, filthy sex. People like to use that blanket statement to bash monogamy, but they tend to quickly (and irrationally) disregard why monogamy is so revered in the first place. Of course, commitment is the key to any relationship, but a majority of people want to give themselves completely to one person and one person only. Who's to say that the majority is necessarily wrong?

Monogamy is a bitch because it requires faithfulness to one person for the rest of your life. Who wouldn't be a little intimidated by that request? But polygamy is no picnic either. The more outside influence you add to a relationship, the harder it is to build trust and strengthen an emotional bond. Jealousies and insecurities are more likely to surface because it's incredibly rare to find a partner with the same sex drive and the same desire to go out and find others (and/or doesn't care if you go out and find others). Any relationship is a tall order, so what we need to start doing is finding balance. Our minds have evolved at an incredible pace over the millennia, but our bodies are still burdened by animal instinct. Some people only want one lover and will never (or rarely) stray. Some people just want to fuck themselves into oblivion. As long as we find our happiness and bring no harm to others, what's so wrong with either lifestyle? I admire people who can remain faithful to one partner for decade after decade. I'm also in awe of a free-loving couple who can live in a relationship without jealousy or resentment getting in the way. I sincerely applaud both and wish them nothing but success.

I know I'm getting long-winded now, but I would like to end this by recommending to everyone Dan Savage's (of Savage Love fame) wonderful book Skipping Towards Gomorrah. He has incredibly entertaining and thought-provoking perspectives on monogamy, commitment, open marriages and adultery. It's not scripture by any means, but he does make passionate yet rational and straightforward defenses for both the monogamous and polygamous crowds. (Better yet, he also introduces a wonderful theory about relationship structures in the animal kingdom vs. the size of an animal's testicles.) I suggest you and your partner(s) read the Lust chapter together as a means of freely addressing your respective outlooks on love, lust and relationships. You might be surprised by what you find from the expectations you have for yourself and the person(s) you're committed to.

velander commented on

Default user image um actually I do know a girl like that...my unicorn's name is princess

A former user commented on

An image of mojada I know a girl like that very well. Sadly, she doesn't like you. :D

mojada commented on

An image of velander I absolutely adore belladea21, and I'm simply crazy about mojada. Alas, both will likely destroy me in their own special way in due time.

I'm looking forward to it.

velander commented on

An image of minerva3333 you had me until the "I would prefer to be the only male partner of my "primary." "....open relationships should be open.....

minerva3333 commented on

An image of velander Obviously you missed the ENTIRE POINT of this essay. Let's break it down once more: I'm still not sure what I want nor what I'm looking for in my next relationship. I know a FULL-BLOWN, 100% OPEN RELATIONSHIP is NOT really to my tastes. And, yes, that means I'm applying a double standard that is most certainly unfair to my partner. I made that quite obvious in the following sentence of the one you pulled your quote. Pay more attention before you blindly throw in your two cents, people!

Like I mentioned at the beginning of this comment thread, ALL OF THIS IS NEGOTIABLE. Seeing as this is my personal journal, though, I thought it would be best to mention what my IDEAL situation would be. I would PREFER that my partner not sleep with other men because I'd likely be much too territorial and critical about which guy she would choose. (Believe it or not, it's more a matter of trusting others than it is trusting her. Could I trust my partner to fly right and come home to me? Likely. But I don't trust other men 'cause I AM A RED-BLOODED, SEXUALLY-DRIVEN MALE and I know EXACTLY how most of us think and what we're capable of as far as taking what's "ours.") I am fully aware that what I am asking is a tall order, but seeing as I'm already seeking an ideal partner -- no easy feat in itself -- it's in my best interest to state my preference. Feel free to use your own journal to list your own demands.

Also, if I remember correctly -- and I've still got a sharp mind at the ripe ol' age of 26 -- relationships are never COMPLETELY open and free. For better or worse, they are rife with odd compromises and nonsensical dealings -- you know, concessions you make specifically because it means spending your time and sharing your love with the one you truly desire. You don't have to like what I'm looking for. But if you add no real insight to what it is that I am seeking and just blindly ignore everything that's already been written here, you're wasting my fucking time.

You've just revealed that you're incapable of reading a concise one-page essay about what I essentially DON'T WANT, and now you've decided to wag your finger in my direction far too late in the game. Simply, I don't care if I had you up until a certain point or another; it's all too apparent that you never had me at all.

velander commented on

An image of velander Let's clear some air here. After I replied to (sandbagged? railroaded?) minerva3333's unnecessary (although *grits teeth* not altogether invalid) response to my essay, I promptly received the following message from her in my inbox:

sorry that you took my journal post so rudely....i was trying to agree with you...you said alot of things that i personally agree with at this point in my life. honestly, we are looking for alot of the same things....though i am looking for a fully open relationship where both partners could see agreed upon outsiders perhaps together or perhaps alone. i wasn't trying to simply put my 2 cents in to disagree with your thoughts (which, by the way, i DID read and I think that I am sharp enough to have understood)...apparently my response didn't do my opinion justice. i think it takes alot of courage to say what you did, especially given that you are openly and knowingly applying a double standard. i never said i didn't like what you were looking for or that i didn't understand that your post was regarding an ideal situation...as again...it is similar to what i am looking for...though my personal ideal goes a bit further than yours, and, i think, deserves every bit as much respect as yours. again, perhaps i phrased it incorrectly, but i liked your profile and your post. i apologise if you were offended in any way.

To which I responded:

When you post a comment that says, "You had me until . . .", I have no choice but to take it literally: "You had me until you said something that I disagree with so passionately that I suddenly lost interest." Which is fine; you don't have to be interested in me. However, when you post a patronizing one-liner -- and that's what it was -- in my comments section that is the rough equivalent to finger-wagging, it deserves a response. If I let you "tsk tsk" me in such an inappropriate way, it allows every new person who reads that essay to make even more assumptions about me. (And I already have enough people jumping to conclusions as is.) It plants the wrong idea in their head that I'm looking for the grand "Open Relationship" when in reality I never once used that word in the essay. And there's a reason why I avoided it. There's also a reason why I used the incredibly awkward "Non-Monogamy" instead of the go-to "Polyamory". Yes, for all intents and purposes, I might as well be asking for such, but my preferences state otherwise, and that's why I don't throw around such designations loosely. I'm trying to respect those out there who are truly polyamorous and don't appreciate being lumped in with the horndog who wants a little more than one person in the bedroom every now and then.

Your apology is accepted. I am not offended nor am I mad at you. And I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is you seek as well.

===============================

I posted this to reveal even more insight as to what I'm looking for. I am not polyamorous. I am at most (a twinge) polygamous. But like I said before, what I pretty much want is a girl who likes MFF threeways. And if she's the type that will actually allow me to play with another girl every now and then -- perhaps one of the girls we regularly play with anyway? -- I would be okay if she (seriously) dated and/or played with other girls. As far as her dating and/or playing with other guys, I'm just not sure about it yet. Could I be okay with it? Maybe. (And that's not a veiled "No" -- it's a "Maybe.") Do I prefer it? NO! That's just how I feel, and I'm sure I'm not the first nor will I be the last to feel this way. HOWEVER, I'm still willing to discuss it further and keep an open mind when I finally meet that special someone that I truly want to share my time and love with. This essay was simply to give fair warning to any serious potential suitors that like it or not this discussion will take place before things get too serious. If I'm going to be a cheater, I might as well be an honest one. Settling for less is no longer a viable (or ethical) option. It's time to go for broke or go home alone.

velander commented on

An image of Ginell I completely agree with this entry. I have had so much struggle with commitment because of this. I care so much for someone that I go into all of these "what if"s when I get into a relationships. For a fear of hurting someone I care about I just reject relationships, or sabotage them. My constant want for something new makes monogamy difficult. I have had my share of sexual encounters, guys, girls, and both at once. It excites me. I'll admit that because of this constant wondering eye of mine I am in a constant battle to be happy. Part of me wants to be true to these heated desires, where the other part of me wants someone to come home to every night. I can relate to your confusion. :) I hope we could talk about this some more. Message me.

Ginell commented on

An image of thetigerlily Monogamy is a very unnecessary thing. You can most definitely have a committed, loving relationship and not be monogamous. I also happen to love threesomes, never want children, and bake awesome chocolate chip cookies.

thetigerlily commented on

An image of velander Here's a cute little IM with someone who completely missed the point: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/velander/journal/13697837989798153623/And-What-Did-You-Learn-Today-

velander commented on

An image of Zorra31 I understand where you're coming from. Best of luck and kudos for being candid.

Zorra31 commented on

Default user image You should really read the book "Opening Up: a Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships". It really thoroughly examines ALL aspects of non-monogamy, not just polyamory. You might find the lifestyle that rings true to you, and find some really helpful pointers in dealing with jealously, negotiation etc. I have it, and am almost done, so you can borrow it (since you've so generously let me borrow neverwhere). Also I'd like to point out in response to thetigerlily's comment: monogamy is necessary, just like nonmonogamy is necessary. The worst thing people living nonmonogamous lifestyles can do is be elitist about monogamous (bc most likely, we probably all started out monogamous too--there are exceptions, I know). The issue I have with monogamy is that more often than not, it is not a choice, it is a default setting, a societal norm. I believe there are many people who have thoroughly thought about monogamy and have consciously made it their choice lifestyle. I would be open to being monogamous again as well in certain cases that might call for it: another partner's sickness, pregnancy, emergency situations etc. Monogamy can be used as a form of relationship preservation in this way. I also think that it is a great tool to use if you're just starting off in a relationship. Especially if you're not very experienced with open lifestyles. Or is you want to establish a strong relationship base. I'd also like to point out that one of the cornerstones of nonmonogamy is that your partner doesn't have to fulfill everything you're looking for. That is a rule of (unconscious)monogamy. This is in response to a comment you made velander (in one of the many comments), about how jealousies arise most often in open relationships bc it's difficult to find someone with the same sex drive etc as you (unless s/he has agreed you can go out freely). I think it's the parathesed part you actually meant- that in an open relationship, you do hash out who can do what, and what is acceptable. You set your own rules according to your own relationship. I know Dan and I don't always have the same sex drive or desire (or means) to go out and find people, which is part of the reason we are poly. As far as the jealously as trust issues...I think they arise quite equally in both monogamous and nonmonogamous relationships. The difference being that nonmonogamy, you begin to ally those fears when you're partner doesn't leave you for the girl he started hooking up with last week. And that, depending on your relationship, you may meet the girl, like her a lot, and become friends with her. (See compersion, which is the working opposite of jealousy).

A former user commented on

An image of velander Well said, belladea21! And thank you for helping me elaborate even further on BOTH the pros and cons of monogamy. I, too, am a believer that monogamy can ultimately be used for good in a relationship (i.e., the reasons you provided in your comment). But you're right -- you SHOULDN'T do it just because everyone else EXPECTS it of you.

Overall, I LOVE the idea of having ONE partner who I can share my life with and who I can trust will be there in times of want AND need. However, for better or for worse, I also want a partner who is willing to up the ante on the everyday conventional sex life, whether it's together or by giving me the "Okay" to stray every now and then. I'm seriously not out to conquer the world. I just want to satiate my sexual appetite to the degree that I see fit. One partner can do that for most of the time (thus, I'm more monogamous than not) . . . but if I'm ALWAYS going to want more, why not try for more? Why not TRY to find someone who matches what I'm looking for? So far I've been pleasantly surprised with the people I've met since putting these cards on the table. I'll take that as proof enough that I'm on the right track.

velander commented on

An image of CleverTitania Given your expressive nature, I think there's something else to factor into your thoughts. You obviously have a vivid and broad imagination. That's a great thing, but it also makes fantasy so much harder to handle, in the context of a relationship. I have this problem myself, though I really am more into monogamy in the real world, in my mind I am definitely polygamous. There are just too many attractive and interesting people in this world, and the first experiences of getting to know someone, and developing that intimacy, is too enticing. It makes fantasies hard to tamp down, for those of us with a very broad mind. And for the record, I wish I did have a unicorn, because you sound like the kind of passionate man that a smart girl could truly enjoy knowing. :)

CleverTitania commented on

An image of Jordanza I enjoy your openness with your sexual preferences. I like that fact that you aren't lying to yourself, or anyone else for that matter. Plus our views are very similar, so I can relate. P.S. I regret to inform you that my unicorn died last year.

Jordanza commented on

An image of 1MaCHetE Very insightful words, I feel the same way. Having this mind set trully does narrow the amount of people one can date, but like you said it is about looking for that ideal person. I'm not settling for someone who will not accept me with my "flaws", so to speak. It is unfortunate that most people have been conditioned to think that monogomy is the only way. Someday we will both find the one we are looking for, till then happy hunting.

1MaCHetE commented on

An image of hevnztrash word. i'm right there with you. you seem to have some wisdom that i could benefit from as i'm going down a similar path.

hevnztrash commented on